An interview by Julia Jüttner
The NSU process now takes four and a half years. On this Tuesday, Federal Chancellor Herbert Diemer will demand the sentence for the defendants Beate Zschäpe, Ralf Wohlleben, Holger G., Carsten S. and André E. in his plea. Subsequently, the adjudicators will begin their final speeches.
Usually, the interests of prosecution and subclaim are close to one another in main negotiations, and they generally have the same goal: to bring the defendants accountable for their deeds. But in the NSU process , the relationship between the Federal Prosecutor's Office and the other prosecutors is remarkably tense.
How can this be explained? And what gaps do lawyers see in the investigations? Adjunct representative Stephan Kuhn gives answers.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Mr. Kuhn, is there a conflict between federal prosecutor's office and secondary court in the NSU proceedings?
Stephan Kuhn: Yes, because many of the adjuncts wanted a ruthless elucidation of the NSU complex right from the beginning. But at the latest with the prosecution, it was clear that the Federal Prosecutor's Office had unnecessarily pointed out that the NSU was an isolated three-party cell - without any helpers and helpers in the crime scene. In addition, the prosecution showed that the Federal Prosecutor's Office wants to keep the constitutional protection largely out of the procedure - and so does state protection.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: How is state protection operated? You must explain that.
Kuhn: Of the circa 40 now well-known V-people, informers and guarantors of the security authorities from the vicinity of Mundlos, Böhnhardt and Zschäpe, only three were listed in the impeachment. The importance of further V-people was shown, however, when V-men charged at the request of the secondary accusation were interrogated in court for several days. From my point of view, more V-people would have to be invited as witnesses.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The investigation had shown no evidence of a criminal involvement of state agencies, says the federal prosecutor. How do you assess the role of the authority?
Kuhn: Unfortunately, the federal prosecutor is not a politically independent law enforcement body. The prosecutor of the prosecutor is rather a political official and is under the supervision of the Federal Minister of Justice. As such, he already has to take into account the statutory requirements of the government according to the legal requirements. The Federal Prosecutor's Office has operated state protection in a comprehensive sense in the NSU procedure - in other words, protection against too much elucidation and a consequent damage to the protection of the constitution. How the position of the Federal Prosecutor is to be assessed is, ultimately, a question of a legal policy. I think it is very problematic, as much in the area of criminal law.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Are you accusing the federal prosecutor of deliberately protecting state institutions?
Kuhn: Yes, I do not remember a single critical question or statement from the Federal Prosecutor's office against the witnesses of constitutional protection in the four and a half years of the trial, even though they obviously did not take it so closely with the truth.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: What role did constitutional protection and the investigating authorities in your opinion in the NSU case?
Kuhn: The V-man Tino Brandt has fundamentally built up the Thuringian Homeland Security with funds of the constitutional protection - he should have received a total of approximately 200,000 DM. In this right-wing group the radicalization of Böhnhardt, Mundlos and Zschap took place, with this money Brandt supported her submerge. If the intelligence services and the investigating authorities had done everything in their power, the three could have already been arrested in Chemnitz and thus before the murders - the necessary insights were available.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: They also accuse the Federal Prosecutor's Office of depriving the sub-plaintiffs of essential parts of the case. As the?
Kuhn: We have not got a complete view of the files in the nine other investigations against separately pursued potential supporters; as well as in the structural procedure in which there are still unknown sponsors, in particular against arms suppliers. We could not even look into individual interrogatory protocols from these procedures by potential supporters and neo-Nazis from the vicinity of Mundlos, Böhnhardt and Zschäpe.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: But they were not part of this process.
Kuhn: Yes, just. The Federal Prosecutor's Office has structured the investigations in such a way as to be able to decide which results of the investigation must be presented to the court - and which are not. If, for example, the prosecutor's office did not wish the parties to the proceedings to be aware of an interrogation, he had interrogated the witness during the structural procedure. Thus, he had the legal leeway to not submit the interrogation to the court.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The subcompetition was able to defend itself with its own arguments - and has done so in immense scope.
Kuhn: Partially, however, the Federal Prosecutor's Office had heard witnesses, but this was not communicated to the other parties to the proceedings but instead requested the Senate to reject the request and not invite these witnesses. In this way, the Federal Prosecutor's Office has used its position in a way which makes it appear that it fears that certain investigations could reach the public.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Do you have an example?
Kuhn: The sub-court accused in court that a former employee of the Federal Constitutional Protection, with the camouflage name Lothar Lingen, had intentionally destroyed files and applied for his cargo. The Federal Prosecutor's Office rejected this assertion: this is speculative. Lingen had already admitted against the federal prosecutor's office that these files had been intentionally destroyed, so that their content would not be known. He said that with the multitude of V people in Thuringia, no one else would have believed the Federal Constitutional Protection that he had known nothing about the NSU.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: In relation to possible other perpetrators, Federal Prosecutor Herbert Diemer spoke in his plea of "lunatic lights" and "flying humming". Are you taking these attacks seriously or is that part of the procedural ban?
Kuhn: As far as the attacks on us are lawyers, I am more amused. What annoys me is disrespect to the victims and their relatives. Representatives of a state still deeply interwoven with the right scene are doing badly to counter the hope of the victims of enlightenment with such arrogance.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Attorney General Anette Greger even claimed that some of the adjuncts had "promised" their clients that "right hind men" would have been given to the crime scene. For this, neither the BKA's investigations nor the investigation committees, nor the court proceedings, had given any indications. What do you think?
Kuhn: The enlightenment of the rear-men, Mrs. Merkel, has promised in her speech at the Staatsstrauerakt in 2012. We do not speak of ambassadors, but are convinced after the evidence that the NSU core trio had supporters who at least partly knew of concrete acts. After so many years - the last murder in 2007 - it is also extremely difficult to determine such holdings.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The Federal Prosecutor's Office has justified its thesis, which only Böhnhardt, Mundlos and Zschäpe, as well as the four co-defendants as perpetrators see, in the pleadings. What do you think of this assumption?
Kuhn: I'm sure there were more winners. The fact is that especially "Blood & Honor" members in Chemnitz knew that the NSU was an armed underground cell. They supported them at least in the period before the first acts. In the last apartment of Mundlos, Böhnhardt and Zschäpe were found explosives and 20 firearms - 17 of them the origin is not clarified. This is a clear indication of further supporters, which the Federal Prosecutor has not yet determined. Just as there are further references to people in the environment that could not be identified.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Which would be?
Kuhn: At the last caravan rental a girl was present, which also resided in the caravan. Although there is DNA, it could not be identified - that is, it does not belong to the already known accused or separately persecuted persons. But the parents must have been so close to the three that they put the girl in their care. From mobile phones, contacts of the three submerged persons result to persons, which could not be identified afterwards. In addition, according to the investigations of the BKA, a confederation of the "Nürnberger Nachrichten" was thrown into the mailbox. Zschap was, after all we know, not there. So it must have someone else thrown in.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: But the evidence in court is not enough to cover a larger group of helpers.
Kuhn: Because the investigations by the Federal Prosecutor's Office - apart from the first two years of the descent - very little on the whole thirteen years of the core triad in the ground. This was, in my opinion, also due to the early conclusion that NSU was an isolated three-cell system. However, the court and all other parties to the proceedings must work on the basis of those investigations. Therefore , the main negotiation could not provide any comprehensive evidence of a larger NSU network. Unfortunately, the court rejected applications for the subcompetition which, from our point of view, could have brought further clarification on the question of helpers at the crime scene.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: In the NSU process, there are 70 attorney-lawyers. How did you feel the collaboration?
Kuhn: Personally, I have never experienced such a good teamwork. I also feel as part of this interview, at least for the group of my colleagues with whom I worked closely. My findings and views expressed here are also based on their work.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: It is said that in the pleadians, relatives or injured would also speak. Why is that important?
Kuhn: There are survivors who have not spoken as witnesses. You will finally have the opportunity to present what the murders, their reverberations in the media, and the partial structural racist investigations have caused them.Despite the high-political content of the entire complex, one must not forget that the Nazis were not the German state, but concrete people and their relatives.
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